[Tiki-devel] Loosing Search Rankings

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[Tiki-devel] Loosing Search Rankings

Dr. Sassafras
We're about to loose our search rankings, the old links that use to work for our pages now point to nothing. 

Google search "tiki get code", this URL is found: https://dev.tiki.org/Get%2Bcode

When you click on it it gives a page not found error. 

If the same page is under a different URL, there needs to be a 301 redirect. This will transfer the previous page-rank to the new URL. It also means that all the old links pointing to it won't be broken.

This has the potential to bankrupt businesses that use tiki and rely heavily on there search rankings for business, assuming it's a change in the way tiki works and not just someone renaming the page... 

Brendan

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Re: [Tiki-devel] Loosing Search Rankings

Oliver Hertel
Hello Dr.,

Wednesday, July 5, 2017, 5:44:31 PM, you wrote:

> We're about to loose our search rankings, the old links that use to
> work for our pages now point to nothing.

> Google search "tiki get code", this URL is found: https://dev.tiki.org/Get%2Bcode
> When you click on it it gives a page not found error.

It's https://dev.tiki.org/Get-code now... could we have something like "auto-aliasing" from previous naming style "some<space>thing" to "some-thing"?

> If the same page is under a different URL, there needs to be a 301
> redirect. This will transfer the previous page-rank to the new URL.
> It also means that all the old links pointing to it won't be broken.

> This has the potential to bankrupt businesses that use tiki and
> rely heavily on there search rankings for business, assuming it's a
> change in the way tiki works and not just someone renaming the page...

Yah, no good.
--
Best regards,
 Oliver


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Loosing Search Rankings

Jonny Bradley-4
Hi Brendan

That's annoying - there was a bug effectively on upgrading to 17.x (since fixed) as the default for the serurl scheme was changed (intended for new installs) but there wasn't an upgrade script to keep existing sites as they were (added in r63146), and the "dashes" method (the new default) decided to encode + chars as %2B for while until i regenerated the page slugs a day or three later.

Annoyingly all the links were somehow re-crawled and changed to the broken version before the fix (as they definitely weren't like that when we were on 16.x). So presumably google and the rest will re-crawl us again and fix them all...

Just not enough people testing and helping basically (it was like this on the next servers for quite a while and requests were made to check things), and now too late to go back in time and not have this happen, unless you can suggest a way to do that (without us having mangled sefurl's for ever more).

Maybe we (the sysadmins) can do a temporary rewrite rule for the servers to make %2B be converted to a hyphen? And then the canonical href should fix things eventually?

jonny


p.s. If something like has bankrupted any companies then i'm sorry but they can't have been in great shape before this, maybe they should have been volunteering more? ;)

p.p.s. duckduckgo.com is still using + for most of our pages, so that one is ok :)


> On 5 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Oliver Hertel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Dr.,
>
> Wednesday, July 5, 2017, 5:44:31 PM, you wrote:
>
>> We're about to loose our search rankings, the old links that use to
>> work for our pages now point to nothing.
>
>> Google search "tiki get code", this URL is found: https://dev.tiki.org/Get%2Bcode
>> When you click on it it gives a page not found error.
>
> It's https://dev.tiki.org/Get-code now... could we have something like "auto-aliasing" from previous naming style "some<space>thing" to "some-thing"?
>
>> If the same page is under a different URL, there needs to be a 301
>> redirect. This will transfer the previous page-rank to the new URL.
>> It also means that all the old links pointing to it won't be broken.
>
>> This has the potential to bankrupt businesses that use tiki and
>> rely heavily on there search rankings for business, assuming it's a
>> change in the way tiki works and not just someone renaming the page...
>
> Yah, no good.
> --
> Best regards,
> Oliver
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
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Re: [Tiki-devel] Loosing Search Rankings

Dr. Sassafras
In reply to this post by Oliver Hertel

>> Google search "tiki get code", this URL is found: https://dev.tiki.org/Get%2Bcode
>> When you click on it it gives a page not found error.
>
> It's https://dev.tiki.org/Get-code now... could we have something like "auto-aliasing" from previous naming style "some<space>thing" to "some-thing"?

Ya, as long as the <space> still loads the page, were good. There is a canonical declaration in the page, so there shouldn't be a ranking penalty with duplicate pages.

As a matter of good practise, a 301 is ideal. If they all 301 redirected to "-" it would reduce the number of indexed pages in google. Multiple pages with a canonical declaration are treated as separate pages and continue to be indexed separately. So if we have "space - +" then google will consume 3x the resources  indexing. The canonical declaration can also be used for example in an iframe (that embeds on a specific page) to transfer the rankings from the embedded frame to the main page.

The fallbacks of using multiple pages with a canonical (instead of 301) are few. One disadvantage is that google decides how many pages, and index frequency partly dependant on page popularity. It might also limit indexing to a certain number of pages on less popular websites. So if we have 3x the number of pages, and "popularity" is divided among those pages, it could mean that in some cases the important pages don't get indexed as frequently.

So if we could 301 to the new URL where posable, it would be ideal, but I'm not going to cry if it's a challenge.

Brendan

>> If the same page is under a different URL, there needs to be a 301
>> redirect. This will transfer the previous page-rank to the new URL.
>> It also means that all the old links pointing to it won't be broken.
>
>> This has the potential to bankrupt businesses that use tiki and
>> rely heavily on there search rankings for business, assuming it's a
>> change in the way tiki works and not just someone renaming the page...
>
> Yah, no good.
> --
> Best regards,
> Oliver
>

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