[Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

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[Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi,
A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.

Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to declare the merging period over?
If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.

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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Dr. Sassafras
My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.

Brendan

> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
>
> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to declare the merging period over?
> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel

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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Jonny Bradley-4

Merging needs to continue until at least the x.0 release, usually the x.1 one.

Volunteers do the merging, anyone with commit access and a shell can do it, i believe.

jonny



> On 13 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Dr. Sassafras <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
>
> Brendan
>
>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
>>
>> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to declare the merging period over?
>> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
In reply to this post by Dr. Sassafras
Right.

So I guess there are indeed 2 ways this could work:
1. Each developer in charge sets an end date for their commitment. When his date comes, the developer in charge announces the end of the merging period if there is no other developer with an ulterior end date.
2. One or more developers don't announce their end date, but commit to announcing the freeze's end when they feel merging is no longer optimal for them and no other developer is committed to keep merging later.

Approach 2 is more risky, but I consider that risk as reasonable.

That being said, approach 1 can still have some agility. I could commit now to ensure synchronization until August, but that does not prevent me from announcing when July ends that I will also ensure synchronization until mid-August if I feel that 17.x and trunk remain sufficiently close at that time.

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Dr. Sassafras [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 11:48
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>
> My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
>
> Brendan
>
> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
> >
> > Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
> declare the merging period over?
> > If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.

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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
In reply to this post by Jonny Bradley-4
Hi Jonny,

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Jonny Bradley [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 12:45
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>
>
> Merging needs to continue until at least the x.0 release, usually the x.1 one.

Why would that be?

>
> Volunteers do the merging, anyone with commit access and a shell can do it, i believe.

Right, but the question is not who has the technical ability to merge.

The risk we must avoid is realizing too late that the merging period should have ended sooner, and realizing that no one volunteers to merge the changes from 17.x to trunk, forcing to rollback 17.x or scrap trunk. In order to avoid that, we need a list of developers who commit themselves to keep trunk synchronized with 17.x if no one else does it. If all goes well, those volunteers may not need to do a single merge, but if no one else merges, that person will be responsible to merge 17.x changes which were done before the end of the merging period was announced.

>
> jonny
>
>
>
> > On 13 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Dr. Sassafras <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
> >
> > Brendan
> >
> >> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
> >>
> >> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
> declare the merging period over?
> >> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Marc Laporte-3
Brendan is spot on with "generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot."

So the best is to merge regularly so it never becomes a big problem. And at one point, (when too many conflicts needed to be manually merged), we just stop. Whomever merged last may say "hey that was hard, should we stop?" and usually everyone agrees.

We don't know ahead of time when it will become too difficult to merge. It depends on too many factors. But we generally try to coincide it with the release of the .1 release. Said another way: The end of the semi-automatic merging is sometimes a good time to release the x.1  It's a good time because that is also the end of support of the previous branch (if not an LTS)

Are you asking because you want to plan ahead of when you can do refactoring in trunk?


Best regards,

M :-)




On Thursday, July 13, 2017, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jonny,
>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Jonny Bradley [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 12:45
>> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>>
>>
>> Merging needs to continue until at least the x.0 release, usually the x.1 one.
>
> Why would that be?
>
>>
>> Volunteers do the merging, anyone with commit access and a shell can do it, i believe.
>
> Right, but the question is not who has the technical ability to merge.
>
> The risk we must avoid is realizing too late that the merging period should have ended sooner, and realizing that no one volunteers to merge the changes from 17.x to trunk, forcing to rollback 17.x or scrap trunk. In order to avoid that, we need a list of developers who commit themselves to keep trunk synchronized with 17.x if no one else does it. If all goes well, those volunteers may not need to do a single merge, but if no one else merges, that person will be responsible to merge 17.x changes which were done before the end of the merging period was announced.
>
>>
>> jonny
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 13 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Dr. Sassafras <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
>> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
>> >
>> > Brendan
>> >
>> >> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
>> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
>> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
>> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
>> >>
>> >> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
>> declare the merging period over?
>> >> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
>> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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--
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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi Marc,
 
> De : Marc Laporte [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 15:42
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>
> Brendan is spot on with "generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot."
>
> So the best is to merge regularly so it never becomes a big problem. And at one point, (when too many conflicts needed to be manually merged), we just stop. Whomever merged last may say "hey that was hard, should we stop?" and usually everyone agrees.

Yes. The second approach I described in my reply to Brendan could be considered a reliable variant of that.

> We don't know ahead of time when it will become too difficult to merge.

Right... just to clarify, none of the approaches really requires knowing ahead of time. As I explained in my reply to Brendan, even the first approach can be agile. A developer in charge may revise his own end date at any time. All we require to know is that there is at least one developer who is still willing to be in charge.

> It depends on too many factors. But we generally try to coincide it with the release of the .1 release. Said another way: The end of the semi-automatic merging is sometimes a good time to release the x.1  It's a good time because that is also the end of support of the previous branch (if not an LTS)

I fail to understand how that would make it a better time than any other. The optimal time to release the first bugfix release is when enough fixes were made, and the optimal time to stop merging is (mostly) when trunk has diverged too much. These may somewhat coincide, but they may equally likely be distant by a ½ a release period.

>
> Are you asking because you want to plan ahead of when you can do refactoring in trunk?

No, see my first message in this thread for background.

>
>
> Best regards,
>
> M :-)
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 13, 2017, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Jonny,
> >
> >> -----Message d'origine-----
> >> De : Jonny Bradley [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 12:45
> >> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> >> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
> >>
> >>
> >> Merging needs to continue until at least the x.0 release, usually the x.1 one.
> >
> > Why would that be?
> >
> >>
> >> Volunteers do the merging, anyone with commit access and a shell can do it, i believe.
> >
> > Right, but the question is not who has the technical ability to merge.
> >
> > The risk we must avoid is realizing too late that the merging period should have ended sooner, and realizing that no one volunteers to merge the changes from 17.x to trunk, forcing to rollback 17.x or scrap trunk. In order to avoid that, we need a list of developers who commit themselves to keep trunk synchronized with 17.x if no one else does it. If all goes well, those volunteers may not need to do a single merge, but if no one else merges, that person will be responsible to merge 17.x changes which were done before the end of the merging period was announced.
> >
> >>
> >> jonny
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 13 Jul 2017, at 16:47, Dr. Sassafras <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
> >> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
> >> >
> >> > Brendan
> >> >
> >> >> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
> >> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
> >> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
> >> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
> >> declare the merging period over?
> >> >> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
> >> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
>
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[Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Marc Laporte-3
In reply to this post by Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Thank you Philippe!

It's good that merging is done by more people.

It's nice that you provide a projected timeline but don't worry too much about a hard calendar. Please do share your feedback if a particular merge was more work than it should be. This will perhaps be a sign that it's time to stop.

Best regards,

M :-)



>
> I could commit now to ensure synchronization until August, but that does not prevent me from announcing when July ends that I will also ensure synchronization until mid-August if I feel that 17.x and trunk remain sufficiently close at that time.
>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Dr. Sassafras [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 11:48
>> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>>
>> My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
>> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
>>
>> Brendan
>>
>> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
>> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
>> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
>> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
>> >
>> > Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
>> declare the merging period over?
>> > If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
>> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>

--
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http://PluginProblems.com
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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi Marc,
Sorry, that was a conditional sentence, where "I" was an example. As I wrote, I can't be in charge of merging. To be clearer:
A developer could commit now to ensure synchronization until August, but that does not prevent that developer from announcing when July ends that he will also ensure synchronization until mid-August if he feels that 17.x and trunk remain sufficiently close at that time.
 

> De : Marc Laporte [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 14 juillet 2017 10:18
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>
> Thank you Philippe!
>
> It's good that merging is done by more people.
>
> It's nice that you provide a projected timeline but don't worry too much about a hard calendar. Please do share your feedback if a particular merge was more work than it should be. This will perhaps be a sign that it's time to stop.
>
> Best regards,
>
> M :-)
>
>
>
> >
> > I could commit now to ensure synchronization until August, but that does not prevent me from announcing when July ends that I will also ensure synchronization until mid-August if I feel that 17.x and trunk remain sufficiently close at that time.
> >
> >> -----Message d'origine-----
> >> De : Dr. Sassafras [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 11:48
> >> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> >> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
> >>
> >> My understanding is that generally when there is too many merge conflicts, it's decided to stop that
> >> process. This time is generally apparent to those who merge a lot.
> >>
> >> Brendan
> >>
> >> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> > A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
> >> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
> >> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
> >> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
> >> >
> >> > Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
> >> declare the merging period over?
> >> > If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
> >> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
> >
>
> --
> Marc Laporte
>
> http://WikiSuite.org
> http://PluginProblems.com
> http://Avan.Tech
>
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Re: [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
In reply to this post by Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi,
Following Brendan's reply, I reconsidered the form commitments could take. To make it clearer, I added a section to the period's page: https://dev.tiki.org/Semi-automatic-merging-period#Synchronization_Team

I called the team of responsibles the "Synchronization Team", which I find not too clear. Ideas for a name which would be clearer and/or more attractive are welcome.

More importantly, the team currently has a single member who merely added himself to clarify how the table works. If you would like semi-automatic merging to continue in August, thanks for volunteering.

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 13 juillet 2017 11:35
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : [Tiki-devel] End of semi-automatic merging for Tiki 17?
>
> Hi,
> A while ago I revisited the commit guidelines for trunk during semi-automatic merging periods and
> came to the conclusion these should be set by those in charge of merging. Unfortunately we did not
> have a list of developers in charge for merging. I then asked who volunteered to maintain 17.x and
> trunk synchronized. Unfortunately, no one has clearly volunteered since.
>
> Is there a developer who can commit oneself to perform merges to trunk if needed, or is it time to
> declare the merging period over?
> If you volunteer, please say when your commitment stops and whether it is specific to 17.x or long-
> term and which restrictions on trunk you demand to maintain that commitment.


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