[Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

[Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi,
In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/

[KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.

luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others support or oppose this?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Jean-Marc Libs
-1

Stated
objective of the change: reduce the frequency of
tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than
coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it's the last
step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding
session.

I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more
elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to
understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just
get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it
works.
In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.

Sadly, I don't have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is
having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out
tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.

That's why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective, and I also hope we stop spending time on this. Tags were discussed during TikiFestFosdem2016 and nothing changed since then. Revisiting tagging every year is just going to decrease the usefulness and accuracy of tagging.


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/

[KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.

luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others support or oppose this?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Gary Cunningham-Lee
In reply to this post by Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Philippe, I appreciate the thought you've put into this, but I have to
agree with Jean-Marc's comments. I think the simplest "good enough" set
of tags is the best.

-- Gary


On 7/19/2017 12:15 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) wrote:

> Hi,
> In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/
>
> [KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.
>
> luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
> I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others support or oppose this?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
In reply to this post by Jean-Marc Libs
Hi Jean-Marc,

>De : Jean-Marc Libs [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Envoyé : 18 juillet 2017 11:59
>À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags
>
>-1
>Stated
>objective of the change: reduce the frequency of
>tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
>The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than
>coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it's the last
>step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding
>session.
>
>I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
>This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more
>elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to
>understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just
>get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it
>works.
>In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.
>
>Sadly, I don't have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is
>having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out
>tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.
>
>That's why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective, and I also hope we stop spending time on this. Tags were discussed during TikiFestFosdem2016 and nothing changed since then. Revisiting tagging every year is just going to decrease the usefulness and accuracy of tagging.

Can you provide a reference to the discussion?

>On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Hi,
>In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/
>
>[KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.
>
>luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
>I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others support or oppose this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

lindon-4
In reply to this post by Gary Cunningham-Lee
-1 from me too. Please no subtags.
Regards,
lindon

> On Jul 18, 2017, at 12:19 PM, Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Philippe, I appreciate the thought you've put into this, but I have to agree with Jean-Marc's comments. I think the simplest "good enough" set of tags is the best.
>
> -- Gary
>
>
>> On 7/19/2017 12:15 AM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) wrote:
>> Hi,
>> In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/
>> [KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.
>> luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation: https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
>> I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others support or oppose this?
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Jean-Marc Libs
In reply to this post by Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)


On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jean-Marc,

>De : Jean-Marc Libs [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Envoyé : 18 juillet 2017 11:59
>À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags
>
>-1
>Stated
>objective of the change: reduce the frequency of
>tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
>The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than
>coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it's the last
>step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding
>session.
>
>I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
>This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more
>elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to
>understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just
>get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it
>works.
>In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.
>
>Sadly, I don't have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is
>having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out
>tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.
>
>That's why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective, and I also hope we stop spending time on this. Tags were discussed during TikiFestFosdem2016 and nothing changed since then. Revisiting tagging every year is just going to decrease the usefulness and accuracy of tagging.

Can you provide a reference to the discussion?

No, but I was there, which you can verify ( https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016 ) and the conclusion of the discussion is Jonny's commit which you already know of.  https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi Jean-Marc,

>De : Jean-Marc Libs [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Envoyé : 19 juillet 2017 09:10
>À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags
>
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>Hi Jean-Marc,
>>
>>>De : Jean-Marc Libs [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>>Envoyé : 18 juillet 2017 11:59
>>>À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
>>>Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags
>>>
>>>-1
>>>Stated
>>>objective of the change: reduce the frequency of
>>>tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
>>>The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than
>>>coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it's the last
>>>step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding
>>>session.
>>>
>>>I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
>>>This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more
>>>elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to
>>>understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just
>>>get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it
>>>works.
>>>In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.
>>>
>>>Sadly, I don't have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is
>>>having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out
>>>tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.
>>>
>>>That's why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective, and I also hope we stop spending time on this. Tags were discussed during TikiFestFosdem2016 and nothing changed since then. Revisiting tagging every year is just going to decrease the usefulness and accuracy of tagging.
>>
>>Can you provide a reference to the discussion?
>
>No, but I was there, which you can verify ( https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016 ) and the conclusion of the discussion is Jonny's commit which you already know of.  https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016

I have no problem believing that you participated in TikiFestFosdem2016. My problem is seeing how the commit tag discussion which allegedly happened there would reject subtags. I don't see any evidence that subtags were even proposed there.

I do not see how mentioning a private discussion without explaining its contents, repeating arguments which you already made and repeating your opinion when I already gave it helps this discussion. If you want to stop spending time on this topic, you are free not to intervene.

Thanks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Gary Cunningham-Lee
Hi,

On 7/19/2017 11:04 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) wrote:
> ...
>>> Can you provide a reference to the discussion?
>>
>> No, but I was there, which you can verify ( https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016 ) and the conclusion of the discussion is Jonny's commit which you already know of.  https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016
>
> I have no problem believing that you participated in TikiFestFosdem2016. My problem is seeing how the commit tag discussion which allegedly happened there would reject subtags. I don't see any evidence that subtags were even proposed there.

Not every TikiFest discussion is documented. I don't know, but maybe
subtags weren't even brought up so couldn't be accepted or rejected.

>
> I do not see how mentioning a private discussion without explaining its contents, repeating arguments which you already made and repeating your opinion when I already gave it helps this discussion. If you want to stop spending time on this topic, you are free not to intervene.

Whatever came about after that TikiFest, in this thread a number of
people have spoken up who are not in favor of subtags, but rather a
simpler one-level system. I believe you are the only person who is
advocating subtags. If I'm not mistaken, then, it appears the consensus
is to not use subtags and I don't think anyone wants to spend more time
on this topic here.

I suggest we stop spending time on this topic on the dev list for now.
You're free to present the argument for subtags and/or other commit
practices on a wiki page at dev.tiki.org for all to read and add
opinions to, etc. as a more permanent, readable record, and, if
compelling, the majority might have a change of opinion, but at least
that won't be adding to inbox clutter.

-- Gary

>
> Thanks
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi Gary,

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Gary Cunningham-Lee [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Envoyé : 19 juillet 2017 10:57
> À : [hidden email]
> Objet : Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags
>
> Hi,
>
> On 7/19/2017 11:04 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant) wrote:
> > ...
> >>> Can you provide a reference to the discussion?
> >>
> >> No, but I was there, which you can verify ( https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016 ) and the conclusion
> of the discussion is Jonny's commit which you already know of.  https://tiki.org/TikiFestFosdem2016
> >
> > I have no problem believing that you participated in TikiFestFosdem2016. My problem is seeing how
> the commit tag discussion which allegedly happened there would reject subtags. I don't see any
> evidence that subtags were even proposed there.
>
> Not every TikiFest discussion is documented. I don't know, but maybe
> subtags weren't even brought up so couldn't be accepted or rejected.

My point exactly

>
> >
> > I do not see how mentioning a private discussion without explaining its contents, repeating
> arguments which you already made and repeating your opinion when I already gave it helps this
> discussion. If you want to stop spending time on this topic, you are free not to intervene.
>
> Whatever came about after that TikiFest, in this thread a number of
> people have spoken up who are not in favor of subtags, but rather a
> simpler one-level system. I believe you are the only person who is
> advocating subtags. If I'm not mistaken, then, it appears the consensus
> is to not use subtags and I don't think anyone wants to spend more time
> on this topic here.
>
> I suggest we stop spending time on this topic on the dev list for now.

There is at least one contributor who considers it very important to discuss changes to commit tags (in a general sense), so I think supporters should speak here.

> You're free to present the argument for subtags and/or other commit
> practices on a wiki page at dev.tiki.org for all to read and add
> opinions to, etc. as a more permanent, readable record, and, if
> compelling, the majority might have a change of opinion, but at least
> that won't be adding to inbox clutter.

Thanks, that is indeed was I was going to do.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [Tiki-devel] Commit subtags

Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
In reply to this post by Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
Hi,
I documented the results of this discussion in https://dev.tiki.org/Commit-Tags
If you want to opine, please do so by modifying the wiki page.
Thanks to Lindon and Gary for their input

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Cloutier, Philippe (DGARI-Consultant)
> Envoyé : 18 juillet 2017 11:15
> À : Tiki developers <[hidden email]>
> Objet : Commit subtags
>
> Hi,
> In March, I proposed structuring our commit tags introducing the concept of subtags:
> https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35757263/
>
> [KIL] becomes a subtag of [REF] ([REF:KIL]) and [REM] becomes a subtag of [MOD] ([MOD:REM]). It
> becomes clear that KIL is refactoring while REM implies functional impact.
>
> luciash opposed that change. jyhem also opposed, with an explanation:
> https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/mailman/message/35798522/
> I mostly rebuked jyhem's arguments and maintain that some tags should be made subtags. Do others
> support or oppose this?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
Loading...