[Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

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[Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Bernard Sfez-3
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Jonny Bradley-4
Hi Bernard

I was having very similar thoughts the other days, how about we add a "sort by" menu to the admin panels config somewhere, to allow, sort by:

* tiki
* a to z
* z to a

...any others? Number of prefs? ;)

Maybe the new grid component thing can do a nice animation of them all moving about like this one?

        http://isotope.metafizzy.co

Something to do at the 'fest maybe?

jb




> On 2 Feb 2017, at 09:57, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> At : tiki-admin.php?page=features
>
> Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.
>
> For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can stays as it is).
> For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to have that many additional features without any kind of order.
>
> Same for some other in interface, etc
>
> What you think ?
>
> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Gary Cunningham-Lee
In reply to this post by Bernard Sfez-3
Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:

> Hello,
>
> At : tiki-admin.php?page=features
>
> Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.
>
> For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
> stays as it is).
> For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
> have that many additional features without any kind of order.
>
> Same for some other in interface, etc
>
> What you think ?
>
> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Bernard Sfez-3
In reply to this post by Jonny Bradley-4
Nice to have this for the control panel. :)


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:31 , Jonny Bradley <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Bernard

I was having very similar thoughts the other days, how about we add a "sort by" menu to the admin panels config somewhere, to allow, sort by:

* tiki
* a to z
* z to a

...any others? Number of prefs? ;)

Maybe the new grid component thing can do a nice animation of them all moving about like this one?

http://isotope.metafizzy.co

Something to do at the 'fest maybe?

jb




On 2 Feb 2017, at 09:57, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com

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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Bernard Sfez-3
In reply to this post by Gary Cunningham-Lee
Yes Gary.

IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)

It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a lot of pref (wiki, etc).


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>



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engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot



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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel



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Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Jean-Marc Libs
I like Gary's suggestion better.

Alphabetic is nice to have but
* it's a bad default on one-laguage software. That's how for years every new Tiki admin started floundering with the Action Log which is not a high priority feature to learn, and which does nothing on a default install. Before they get to the really important Admin Panel, luckily in second position
* it's a horrible default on multi-language software like Tiki because everything moves around depending on language, which is a pain for visual-memory people. Plus, some of use work on customer's websites in languages we don't understand, so if things are not even in the same place, we sound like even experts can't find their way around the place. Yay for credibility and confidence!

Not saying alphabetic should not be there as an option, for when one knows what one is looking for. Just not the default. And search/filter is probably better if you know what you look for.

Cheers,
J-M

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes Gary.

IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)

It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a lot of pref (wiki, etc).


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>



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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel



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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Gary Cunningham-Lee
In reply to this post by Bernard Sfez-3
Meaningful grouping is important if you don't know the name, or are
checking out options section by section, contextually. Not as easy to
maintain as a simple alphabetical list, but much more meaningful/helpful
IMHO.

If some script is used to display/reorder items dynamically, like Jonny
linked to, that might work nicely for both maintenance and display.

Even in this case, there should be tags or whatever, functioning like
the filters in the Isotope script, such as "Main", "Supplementary",
"User" (or "User interface", "User space", etc.), "Admin" and so on,
sort of like the group headings I suggested. I wonder if these could be
added as parameters on the prefs to enable sorting on the admin pages, etc.?



-- Gary

On 2/2/2017 9:47 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:

> Yes Gary.
>
> IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a
> rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)
>
> It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom
> (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a
> lot of pref (wiki, etc).
>
>
>> On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
>> change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
>> almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
>> supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
>> more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
>> though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
>> of items within the groups.
>>
>> Additional user features:
>> Surveys
>> Directory
>> Quizzes
>> Shoutbox
>> Minichat
>> Time Sheet
>> Invoice
>> Accounting
>> Payment
>> Webmail
>> FAQs
>> Image Gallery
>> HTML pages
>>
>> Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
>> conjunction with a "major" feature.]
>> Tell a Friend
>> Share
>> Tiki User Credits
>> Draw (SVG Edit)
>> jCapture Screencast
>> HTML Feed
>> Mail-in
>> Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
>> Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export
>>
>> Additional administrative features:
>> Dynamic Content System
>> Perspectives
>> Areas
>> Search engine friendly URL
>> Action Log
>> Communications (send/receive objects)
>> Contribution
>> Copyright
>> Docs (WebODF)
>> Live support system
>> FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]
>>
>> -- Gary
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> At : tiki-admin.php?page=features
>>>
>>> Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.
>>>
>>> For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
>>> stays as it is).
>>> For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
>>> have that many additional features without any kind of order.
>>>
>>> Same for some other in interface, etc
>>>
>>> What you think ?
>>>
>>> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <http://bsfez.com> <https://bsfez.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org <http://SlashDot.org>!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org <http://SlashDot.org>!
>> http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>
> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Bernard Sfez-3
In reply to this post by Jean-Marc Libs
Both can live together. :)

But I understand your concern and it is better we discuss it and decide of some guideline : https://tiki.org/Roundtable+Meeting+2017+02#Second_hour_longer_topics






On 2 Feb 2017, at 16:16 , Jean-Marc Libs <[hidden email]> wrote:

I like Gary's suggestion better.

Alphabetic is nice to have but
* it's a bad default on one-laguage software. That's how for years every new Tiki admin started floundering with the Action Log which is not a high priority feature to learn, and which does nothing on a default install. Before they get to the really important Admin Panel, luckily in second position
* it's a horrible default on multi-language software like Tiki because everything moves around depending on language, which is a pain for visual-memory people. Plus, some of use work on customer's websites in languages we don't understand, so if things are not even in the same place, we sound like even experts can't find their way around the place. Yay for credibility and confidence!

Not saying alphabetic should not be there as an option, for when one knows what one is looking for. Just not the default. And search/filter is probably better if you know what you look for.

Cheers,
J-M

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes Gary.

IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)

It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a lot of pref (wiki, etc).


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot



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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel



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Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com


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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Torsten Fabricius-4
+1 to "Both can live together"

=>

Meaningful as default plus option to resort alphabetical - do I understand right?

How this type of sorting would be coded and maintained?

Easy or hard to implement ... any maintaining strain?

Regards,
Torsten

On 02.02.2017 16:15, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Both can live together. :)

But I understand your concern and it is better we discuss it and decide of some guideline : https://tiki.org/Roundtable+Meeting+2017+02#Second_hour_longer_topics



On 2 Feb 2017, at 16:16 , Jean-Marc Libs <[hidden email]> wrote:

I like Gary's suggestion better.

Alphabetic is nice to have but
* it's a bad default on one-laguage software. That's how for years every new Tiki admin started floundering with the Action Log which is not a high priority feature to learn, and which does nothing on a default install. Before they get to the really important Admin Panel, luckily in second position
* it's a horrible default on multi-language software like Tiki because everything moves around depending on language, which is a pain for visual-memory people. Plus, some of use work on customer's websites in languages we don't understand, so if things are not even in the same place, we sound like even experts can't find their way around the place. Yay for credibility and confidence!

Not saying alphabetic should not be there as an option, for when one knows what one is looking for. Just not the default. And search/filter is probably better if you know what you look for.

Cheers,
J-M

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes Gary.

IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)

It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a lot of pref (wiki, etc).


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>



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Re: [Tiki-devel] Additional feature sorting

Bernard Sfez-3
Hello,

Committed changes in trunk.

Feel free to comment and help to improve.

B

On 2 Feb 2017, at 19:30 , Torsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

+1 to "Both can live together"

=>

Meaningful as default plus option to resort alphabetical - do I understand right?

How this type of sorting would be coded and maintained?

Easy or hard to implement ... any maintaining strain?

Regards,
Torsten

On 02.02.2017 16:15, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Both can live together. :)

But I understand your concern and it is better we discuss it and decide of some guideline : https://tiki.org/Roundtable+Meeting+2017+02#Second_hour_longer_topics



On 2 Feb 2017, at 16:16 , Jean-Marc Libs <[hidden email]> wrote:

I like Gary's suggestion better.

Alphabetic is nice to have but
* it's a bad default on one-laguage software. That's how for years every new Tiki admin started floundering with the Action Log which is not a high priority feature to learn, and which does nothing on a default install. Before they get to the really important Admin Panel, luckily in second position
* it's a horrible default on multi-language software like Tiki because everything moves around depending on language, which is a pain for visual-memory people. Plus, some of use work on customer's websites in languages we don't understand, so if things are not even in the same place, we sound like even experts can't find their way around the place. Yay for credibility and confidence!

Not saying alphabetic should not be there as an option, for when one knows what one is looking for. Just not the default. And search/filter is probably better if you know what you look for.

Cheers,
J-M

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Bernard Sfez <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
Yes Gary.

IMO we won’t invest much time on each new insertion and we should have a rule that will work in 99% case. (for all admin pref)

It should be A to Z (if experimental or deprecated = at the bottom (after Z)) so we can also move this on the other page were there are a lot of pref (wiki, etc).


On 2 Feb 2017, at 13:36 , Gary Cunningham-Lee <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

Looking at the list of "Additional features", seems to me one good
change would be to put the ones that site users interface with directly
almost as "mini-features" in one group, and ones that are more
supplementary in another, and also have a group that's interacted with
more by admins than by normal site users. Maybe something like this,
though items might not be quite right. Also I didn't think about order
of items within the groups.

Additional user features:
Surveys
Directory
Quizzes
Shoutbox
Minichat
Time Sheet
Invoice
Accounting
Payment
Webmail
FAQs
Image Gallery
HTML pages

Supplementary features: [Kind of arbitrary, but these seem to be used in
conjunction with a "major" feature.]
Tell a Friend
Share
Tiki User Credits
Draw (SVG Edit)
jCapture Screencast
HTML Feed
Mail-in
Slideshow (jQuery.s5)
Slideshow (jQuery.s5) PDF Export

Additional administrative features:
Dynamic Content System
Perspectives
Areas
Search engine friendly URL
Action Log
Communications (send/receive objects)
Contribution
Copyright
Docs (WebODF)
Live support system
FutureLink-Protocol [Isn't this one dead already?]

-- Gary



On 2/2/2017 6:57 PM, Bernard Sfez wrote:
Hello,

At : tiki-admin.php?page=features

Features and Additional features are displayed as they were entered.

For feature we may prefer to have them set by preponderance. (so it can
stays as it is).
For Additional Features it look a bit messy and it is not practical to
have that many additional features without any kind of order.

Same for some other in interface, etc

What you think ?

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>



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